What if emotional eating isn't about a lack of willpower at all? In this replay episode of PCOS Unfiltered, I sit down with health coach and Sugar Knockout Coach Kerri Pagliarini to explore the real reasons so many women struggle with sugar cravings, emotional eating, and feeling out of control around food. Together, we unpack the connection between brain chemistry, blood sugar, gut health, habit loops, and emotional coping patterns—and why shame and self-criticism only keep the cycle going. Kerri shares her own health journey, practical strategies for interrupting cravings, and simple ways to begin listening to your body's signals instead of fighting them. If you've ever wondered why you keep reaching for sugar even when you don't want to, this episode will help you understand what's really happening beneath the surface and remind you that lasting change starts with curiosity, not willpower.
Listening is a great place to start, but lasting change happens when you begin putting these ideas into practice.
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This week, the next time you notice a craving, pause before you eat.
Instead of immediately reaching for food, take one slow breath and ask yourself:
🩷 What am I feeling right now?
🩷 What do I really need in this moment?
🩷 Am I physically hungry, or am I looking for comfort, connection, rest, or relief?
🩷 What is one small thing I can do to support myself before I decide to eat?
Remember, this isn't about judging yourself or avoiding certain foods. It's about becoming more aware of your body's signals so you can respond with intention instead of autopilot.
Kerri Pagliarini is a Health Coach and Sugar Knockout Coach who helps women overcome sugar cravings, emotional eating, and unhealthy habits by addressing the root causes, not just the symptoms. Through practical nutrition strategies, mindset shifts, and sustainable lifestyle habits, she empowers women to create lasting change without relying on willpower.
Learn more about Kerri through her website, social media, and her Mind & Body Reset Hub community. You can also find her cookbook featuring simple, blood sugar-friendly recipes designed to support healthier habits.
https://www.amazon.ca/Sugar-Knockout-Cookbook-Clean-eating-Cravings/dp/B0DFK88KKR
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❤️ Share this episode with someone who struggles with emotional eating or sugar cravings.
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Remember:
Your cravings aren't something to fear—they're something to understand. The more you learn to listen to your body's signals with curiosity instead of criticism, the easier it becomes to create lasting, sustainable change.
⚠️ Podcast Disclaimer
This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine.
(0:06) Hello, hello, welcome. I am super, super excited to have Kari here today. She's a fellow health (0:15) coach and very dear friend of mine.So let's just kind of jump right in. And Kari, I want to hear, (0:23) you know, hear you tell everybody more about what you do and what's just kind of led you on (0:28) your own health journey and brought you to this point in health coaching. (0:31) Awesome.First of all, thank you so much for having me. (0:34) Lindsay knows me well, so she's heard this spiel a bunch of times. But basically, (0:40) my health was like, I was just kind of falling apart, like in my early 20s, (0:44) like falling apart, right? So I had migraines, I had gas and bloating, right? All the embarrassing (0:50) stuff.I had hormonal issues, which ended up with, I had ovarian cysts, which I was told. (0:56) A lot of things I was told I was just the kind of person that this happens to. And until I ended up (1:00) in the hospital needing surgery.And that's when I was like, though, this there's something's (1:05) happening here. And I started researching, I started working with a health coach, changed my diet, (1:09) changed my lifestyle. So the things that they tell you that are just happening to you know, (1:14) you have so much more control, which I think is amazing.You have so much more control than you (1:18) realize. If you just worry about what you're putting in your body, on your body, worrying (1:24) about stress, like I said, all the diet, lifestyle, all the things. And it's truly amazing that you can (1:29) really take care of yourself and not just let things happen to you.Because I felt like things (1:35) were happening to me. And that sucks. I'm not the kind of person that just wanted to deal with that.(1:40) So yeah, that's a little bit about that. I was like, if the health coach can help me, (1:43) I want to go help people. So I went and did that.(1:46) Good. Yeah. And now she calls herself the sugar knockout coach.But it's true. I mean, (1:50) I feel like there's been like, just even in my talks with people, and I think you'll see even (1:56) more throughout the podcast episodes, there's just this like underlying theme of empowerment (2:01) and just being able to take control and being able to advocate for yourself. That's huge.Because (2:09) yes, like, I feel like I don't want to bash traditional medicine all the time, (2:13) because it is needed. But you have to understand that they don't know everything. And so just (2:19) because they tell you something, especially like they don't know everything, I feel like when it (2:23) comes to nutrition and exercise and that type of thing, they're just not taught like that, (2:28) then you have to be the one to go out and discover some of that on your own and find what works for (2:33) you and, you know, know what other resources are out there.And so that's where Carrie plays (2:39) a huge role for sure. I'm so glad that you said that, too, just like if I could say one thing, (2:44) because then like, right, there is there is a time and a place for traditional medicine, (2:48) but you can have more of an actual intelligent conversation with your doctor when you know (2:54) what's going on with your body and what works for you and what doesn't. So then it really (2:57) becomes the partnership.I think it should be if you can find a doctor that's listening to you. (3:01) If one isn't, then, you know, that partnership's over. (3:05) Yeah, they definitely have to be open to it for sure.And if they're not, (3:08) then maybe that one's not right for you. So yeah, definitely. So let's just kind of (3:14) yeah, keep going here.So have you ever found yourself knee deep in sweets after a stressful (3:20) day? And what was that like? I know I have in the past. I'm sure a lot of people listening. (3:25) Yeah, probably right there with you.So yeah, this is such a great question. One, (3:29) because I am the sugar knockout coach like I Hey, everyone, I still go through all this too. (3:33) Like I I'm not perfect.I think what happens a lot is it becomes like a mindless thing, right? (3:40) Like all of a sudden, I'm in my kitchen. I'm eating like, you know, the chocolate chips or (3:45) like cookies or potato chips. And I'm just kind of like shoveling them in.And like no mindfulness (3:51) at all. Right. And then the crash happens.And then there's the emotional crash. So tell me if (3:58) you can relate to this, Lindsay and anyone listening, right? Then I feel shame. Then I (4:02) feel guilt.Right? Because I'm like, Oh my gosh, I have no control. What is wrong with me? I should (4:07) be better. I know I shouldn't eat that.Like we all know sugar is not good for us. I know I (4:11) shouldn't be eating that. And I think that's the real damage.So we start beating ourselves up. (4:15) And then because I don't have a coping mechanism to deal with my emotions, or I've been using (4:21) sugar as the coping mechanism, I go right back into eating sugar, and then feeling shame and (4:27) guilt and beating myself up and eating more sugar. I mean, it just becomes a vicious cycle.(4:34) Yeah, for sure. I mean, yeah, there's such a huge emotional component. Yeah.I remember (4:39) as a nurse, like, Oh my gosh, I mean, you know, I was single. And I'd be like, after 12, sometimes (4:45) 14 hour day, you know, I'd come home and I would eat like a maybe a decent dinner. But then (4:52) immediately I'd go to Oreos.That was my big thing. Oh, yeah. And then you just Yeah.And then you (4:57) feel like drunk after and I still kept doing it every single time. But it was, it was just kind (5:04) of like the habit of like, okay, I had dinner and now I can have this treat, you know, and then I'd (5:08) limit myself to four something and then you end up eating for more. Yeah.And they're done. (5:15) It's interesting, because we just had someone who graduated my program, who hadn't eaten Oreos, (5:19) and she loved Oreos. And I'm like, wait till you taste an Oreo now, after your taste buds have (5:24) changed after you know, you know, like, it's your chemicals.I'm like, Oh, yeah, I loved Oreos, too. (5:29) I love there's no sugar I don't love that I haven't loved in the past. Yeah, well, yeah, that (5:35) kind of that's a it's a great segue into the next question is what was your relationship with sugar, (5:41) like growing up, you know, even at a younger age? And how do you feel that that impacted you later (5:47) on? Oh, yeah, that's such a great question.Because I feel like, especially like with my generation, (5:52) everybody ate sugar, like it was just a thing. Everybody ate a bunch of sugar, like my parents (5:57) had zero problem. And actually, my mom still to this day, my mom loves junk food.She loves candy. (6:02) So we had a ton of it around, and I ate a lot of it. And then as a teenager, got a job and bought (6:08) all the things with my money, right? I bought candy and chips and fast food.Gummy candy was (6:14) my absolute weakness. I've eaten so much gummy candy, like enough to last 10 lifetimes, right? (6:18) But when you're young, your body can process that a little bit quicker. Now, I had migraines in (6:24) elementary school.So my body wasn't doing so hot. Like I was getting signs then and they were few (6:29) and far between. But in my late 20s, like early 30s is when it really caught up with me.And I (6:35) really started noticing the signs. But when you think about it, it really was starting in my late (6:40) teens, early 20s. Right.So and I was listening to something the other day. They're like heart (6:44) disease doesn't start in your 50s. Started in like your 40s and 30s.And so my body was giving (6:50) me all these signs, right? I was having the migraines. I was having all the things. But until (6:54) it like was more severe and more frequent is when I actually noticed where my body was like, okay, (6:59) like we we have to stop here.So there's a lot of signs, I think, along the way that we all just (7:06) avoid because we think it's normal or we're the kind of person that gets migraines. (7:10) Yep, exactly. Oh, my gosh.Yeah. And I was actually just having this conversation with (7:14) somebody yesterday. Stay tuned for that podcast as well.But yeah, these things that we do to (7:19) our bodies that we don't listen to, first of all, we're just not listening until we have to listen (7:26) because something is really going on. But you also just don't realize that what you're doing, (7:31) you know, now and we all think we're invincible when we're at that age. (7:34) Oh, yeah.(7:35) Plus, yes, I feel like the trend has also been us waking up. I mean, in general, (7:42) more people waking up to what's actually in our food now because it definitely wasn't like that (7:47) before. And yeah, you learn later on like that all this stuff you did 10 plus years ago is now (7:52) affecting you for sure.(7:54) Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's it's interesting. But yeah, you do feel invincible in your teens.Oh, my gosh. (7:59) Yeah. Yeah.So how would you define emotional eating versus the sugar addiction? And (8:06) how are they different? How are they connected? (8:08) Interesting. So can I say they're different yet connected? (8:12) I think so. (8:12) Yeah, I think when I think of sugar addiction, I think of more like physical stuff.So gut (8:17) imbalance, right? If your gut bacteria is off the bad bacteria, if you have too much, it's going to (8:22) crave sugar. Studies have shown that. So you're just feeding that and it gets worse.So that's (8:27) physical or a nutrient deficiency, like you're going to crave sugar when you need some other (8:33) things. So but when your gut's out of whack, which I find really interesting, is that so like 80 (8:38) percent of our serotonin is made in the gut, our happy hormone. So we have these physical needs, (8:45) our gut's out of whack.We have a nutrient deficiency. Now we're not making the serotonin (8:49) that we need. And so we're seeking pleasure and we start using sugar for pleasure.And that's when (8:56) I think it starts turning into emotional eating because we're not we're not happy the way that we (9:02) should be. And so, yeah, we just start we get these like little hits of dopamine from sugar. (9:10) And so we feel really good.And our brains are like so amazing. They're like, OK, so like where (9:14) are we going to get this next hit? Where is this coming from? Right. And so then I think the (9:18) opposite is true of like someone, you know, then it can go the other way.Like people have just (9:23) started using sugar to manage emotions and then the cascade effect of gut issues, hormone issues, (9:29) nutrient deficiency. And so you can be like they're like a yin and yang is how I picture it. (9:35) Yeah.Yeah. I've said this before, but I'll say it again. We're overfed and undernourished, (9:39) right? Because yeah, because we keep getting that hit, you know, from from all these nutrient (9:45) lacking foods where if we can just increase and improve the nutrients, you know, that we're (9:51) putting into our bodies that will help balance some of that stuff out without even removing it, (9:57) without even thinking about removing some of that stuff first, because then your body's like, oh, (10:01) I feel good from this now.And so they're going to want, you know, your body's going to want (10:05) more of that instead of the the nutrient lacking foods. Yeah, absolutely. And I love that you said (10:11) you don't like when people see me coming.Oh, my God. Like I go to networking. It's like, oh, (10:16) I don't usually eat like this.And I'm like they people think I'm sitting there like judging what (10:21) they're eating. It's really funny. And also like I might do just add more nutrients to that plate.(10:27) It's not really about removing. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So what are some subtle signs that someone (10:34) might be emotionally eating without realizing it? So I would say two.So the two big ones to me (10:40) and what I see the most is late night snacking ready without being hungry. Like you just feel (10:46) like you need to like you're talking about the Oreos. And so really, it's just it's a habit.(10:51) And I think because I work with a lot of moms and a lot of like busy women, I think it's the only (10:55) time like that they get to actually sit and relax. And so they associate whatever they're eating with (11:01) relaxation. Right.So it just it's like late night snacking that's become a habit because (11:05) they're getting that little hit right where they're like finally doing something for themselves. (11:09) And the next I think is a craving for one specific thing. So it's not the lasagna your mom only (11:15) makes once a Christmas.Okay, I will eat lasagna one time a year because she makes it and it's (11:19) amazing. So it's like I need potato chips right now. I need salt and vinegar potato chips and I (11:24) will get in my car and drive for that.That's emotional eating. I don't need potato chips. (11:31) There's no nutritional value in them.And I mean, salt and vinegar potato chips. I have eaten those (11:35) until my tongue has peeled like back in the day. Yeah, my gosh.Yeah, that should be a real like (11:41) if you're eating until that. Yeah, my tongue is numb. And yeah, what's happening here? Yeah, (11:47) that.So yeah, I've eaten gigantic bags of that. So if it's something really specific, like that's (11:51) emotional. It's not like, hey, I need some protein or I'm craving this.It's like I need that right (11:57) now. Yeah. Yeah.Well, I think that's a good point, too, because I feel like for some people, (12:03) it might be more of the sweet stuff. And then others, yes, it might be more of the salty. But (12:09) some people might associate more the emotional eating with like sweets where it could be, (12:14) you know, it could even be the salty things as well.So that's a good. Yeah, absolutely. (12:20) Absolutely.What kind of piggybacking off of that, too? What are some other things? I know (12:25) I have some things I usually recommend. What are some other things like coping wise that (12:29) could help kind of break that cycle that you would recommend for them to do instead of going to the (12:35) sweets or the salty snacks or whatever it is? Are there any other things to recommend? (12:41) Yeah, my favorite one is really pausing. Right.And just taking a breath for I don't care, (12:47) five seconds, 10 seconds, 30 seconds. And like really just tuning into your body. Like what (12:52) am I feeling right now? Like for me, it's anxiety.Like that was the thing. Like I'm super anxious (12:58) and I use food to manage my emotions again because it gives you that dopamine hit. And I'm like, (13:03) so, one, what do I really need? Like, what's what's the feeling? And then two, what do I (13:09) really need? Like if it's anxiety, is it something I can deal with in that moment? Right.Is it (13:15) having some tea? Is it taking five minutes away from my computer? Is it going to meditate for (13:19) five minutes? Is it getting in my car and going for a drive? Because the people I live with are (13:23) driving. Right. Like what do you need in that moment? Because sometimes it's a hug.Sometimes (13:28) it's a call with a friend. Like it's connection. It's not it's not salt and vinegar potato chips.(13:34) Yeah, we think it is. And why do you think I mean, we kind of touched on this a little bit, (13:39) but I feel like sugar is the go to a lot of the time. Yeah.Why do you think that is that? (13:46) I think it's because, yeah, I think it's the dopamine hit. I think it just it lights up (13:51) pleasure centers in the brain. And Lindsey, if I've had this conversation, people have told me (13:55) cannot be addicted to sugar.Studies have shown that you can be because it lights up the same (14:00) pleasure centers in the brain as other addictive substances. Of course, with sugar, it's very (14:05) temporary, right? It's a little temporary hit. And so your subconscious like it makes you feel safe, (14:11) right? It starts to feel like it feels good.It starts to feel safe and it gets comfortable. (14:16) And so the subconscious is always going to be like, oh, let's do that. Like, you know, (14:20) I have a feeling I don't like what makes me feel better.And it could be Oreos. It could be (14:24) it could be salt and vinegar, potato chips that break down into sugar. But like for me, (14:28) it was gummy candy like that was my thing.So we get this feeling we feel really good. (14:34) We get this temporary hit and then we create a habit loop, right? I'm sad. I eat gummy candy.(14:41) I feel better temporarily when I and then when that goes away, I need more candy. Yeah. Yeah.(14:47) And I know you and I have both had clients that have experienced it. But when you remove those (14:53) sugars, they get the same symptoms, the same withdrawal symptoms as somebody would from drugs (14:59) and alcohol. So I think that right there says a lot about about how addictive sugar can be for (15:08) sure.Yeah. And it's yeah. And I'm like, how are you going to tell me that you can't be addicted (15:13) to sugar when I'm always like I'm a recovering sugar addict? Like that makes me happy.And I'm (15:19) like, I said, I mean, my mom is still doing it like you can still do it your entire life. (15:23) Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. So how does sugar I mean, we kind of again kind of talked on some of this (15:30) because some of these questions are kind of, you know, overlapping, but yeah, kind of sugar (15:33) effect mood we've talked about, but also hormones and energy levels. I think that's huge.Yeah. Yeah. (15:41) So I know we talked a little bit about mood when we were talking about like not making (15:45) enough serotonin when we're eating too much sugar, messing with our gut or getting that (15:48) little dopamine hit.And then we have a little crash and that sucks. But that's exactly what (15:52) happens with energy. It's just happening with our blood sugar instead.And so when we're eating (16:00) copious amounts of sugar, no judgment because I've done it, our blood sugar spikes. And I know you (16:04) talked a lot about this with your insulin resistance. And so insulin comes in just as (16:09) quickly and brings it into our cells.But then our blood sugar drops. And usually when our blood (16:14) sugar is pretty low, our body send out signal like our blood sugar is really low. We don't like (16:19) this.We need to go get something that has a lot of sugar to bring our to bring like our energy and (16:25) everything back up. And so we get on this roller coaster because it's like eat sugar, blood sugar (16:31) rises and it drops each sugar. And so like all day long and you have these energy dips and you're (16:36) exhausted or like how many people go to sleep and then you're still waking up exhausted.And this (16:42) was me forever. You're still exhausted. And so then you need all this caffeine.And then like at (16:47) three o'clock, I needed more caffeine. And then I was doing nap. Yeah.Or energy drinks. And so it (16:54) starts like this, like what's happening with your mood and energy. It's like so interconnected.And (17:00) yeah. And like I said a little bit about with the estrogen, it just throws off everything like (17:03) estrogen levels, cortisone levels, like my cortisol levels, like my, I mean, my hormones were an (17:08) absolute disaster when I was eating all of that sugar. But when you cut it out and you start (17:14) feeling your body like we talked about, it's things start to come back into balance.I met somebody (17:19) the other day. I was like, and she's like 20 years behind me in her journey with ovarian cysts. And I (17:25) was like, if I could tell you one thing, sugar, like cut the sugar.So. Yeah. Yeah.Because even (17:32) even when you cut, like for me, it was gluten, but still it's pretty much a sugar or, you know, (17:39) a gluten is attached to, you know, these things that contain sugars too. So even just by removing (17:44) all of that, you're basically removing sugar. There's just this overlying, you know, thing.(17:50) And there's more sugar in so many more things, I think, than there was, you know, even back then, (17:57) back then, back then. Yeah. I know.Right. Well, what's so funny too, is people like, (18:02) oh, I don't have a sugar problem, but I do drink a couple glasses of wine at night. (18:05) Yeah.Like that's my vice. And I'm like, oh, but that's still sugar. You know what I mean? (18:10) Yeah.Yeah. So can emotional eating ever be a healthy coping mechanism or is it something (18:17) to just fix? I kind of, I mean, I like this question. Yeah.I'm like, this is a good one, (18:22) right? Because let's be real. Like, so everyone thinks of emotional eating. Oh, it's so bad.(18:27) But we're human and food is emotional, right? Like it's tied to so many things like celebration, (18:36) culture, memories. Like I have so many great childhood memories of holidays. Like it's all (18:40) kind of mixed in together.And so yes, comfort sometimes, right? Which in that in itself, (18:44) I don't think is bad. I think the problem becomes when it's our only coping tool, right? So food (18:51) is how I deal with stress, how I deal with sadness, how I deal with boredom, how I deal with (18:57) overwhelm. So then that's not really, that's not helping.That's not right. It's just numbing out. (19:01) And that's why I talked to my ladies about being curious, right? Like not really judgmental.So (19:07) again, like what's happening here? Like what do I need right now? And then, so it's not always (19:12) something to fix, but I think if you understand like why you're eating certain things. So we talk (19:18) a lot about tuning in and our programs. And I know we have, we have a lot of similar things with that, (19:22) like understanding why you're doing the things you're doing around food.And then you can see, (19:27) because I mean, life is really short without a piece of chocolate cake. But if I'm using it (19:32) to manage all my emotions, I mean, I could eat that chocolate cake in a day if I'm having a bad day. (19:37) Yeah.Yeah. There's like, I know for me, like I had to really kind of think about this. I mean, (19:42) it didn't take me long, but like just to make that connection.And it was, it was the connection to (19:47) my mom because we used to bake together all the time. And so I was just get like, if I, if I didn't (19:54) cook dinner, I still always was like baking something, whether it's from a box or whatever. (19:59) Now I do have like healthier options.But yeah, sometimes you have to do some, some self-reflecting (20:07) and you know, is there some type of tie there that's, that's connecting you to something or (20:14) someone, something deeper, kind of pulling you into that. And there's nothing wrong with that (20:18) because then like you said, you know, yeah, whether it's a holiday or a celebration of some sort that (20:23) you're tied to a certain food, that's great. But when it becomes an everyday occurrence.(20:28) Yeah. Yeah. I love that you brought up like the deeper stuff.So we have, I have someone who's (20:34) just graduating one of my programs also, and she was obsessed with Diet Coke. And so we dug a little (20:40) bit deeper and it was that growing up they didn't, they didn't have a lot of money. And when they (20:45) started having some kind of like a little extra money, her mom would get a Diet Coke and she would (20:50) sit there with her mom and eat and have a Diet Coke.I'm like, that is hugely emotional. Yeah. (20:54) But you just think like, I just need a Diet Coke and I just need it and I just can't stop.But then (20:58) you take a step back and you're like, oh, well that was something I like to do with my mom. (21:02) And that means something to me. Yeah.Yeah. And now she's, now her and her mom don't drink Diet Coke. (21:07) She got her mom off Diet Coke.But, you know, there's so many reasons for food. That's why we (21:11) need to, you know, just take a look at it. Exactly.Yeah. So we talked a little bit about your, (21:17) your go-to strategies for identifying emotional triggers before the craving hits. What are some (21:23) that maybe of your own or and or that you recommend? Sure.So, yeah, for emotional triggers, (21:29) it's funny, right? Because like these things just don't come out of nowhere, right? Like there's (21:33) usually a pattern and a trigger or like a feeling that starts before you're like, I want potato chips. (21:41) Like I said earlier, let's use that example. Right.Like if I'm stressed, I'm like, I need to (21:44) have like potato chips, but like what, like what happened like before that? Right. So we're not (21:50) like tracking calories, but we're tracking like, I call them craving windows. Right.So like we (21:55) said, like a lot of women at night, they're like, I, I crave a lot of sweets at night. It's the only (22:01) time they get for themselves, the only time it's quiet or like right after lunch. Or so we want to (22:07) like start like, what are, what are the, like what's happening before that? Right.If it's a (22:11) three o'clock slump, what did you eat? But you know, or you're at work, you're in like a stressful (22:15) meeting that happens every day. So we want to just kind of look at those to get some kind of clue (22:20) because it's not really random and see what is like, and again, without judgment, we just want, (22:25) we're just looking and examining and being curious. We don't need to be judging what's (22:31) happening.And we do that a lot. And then I feel like then it compounds and then it's like double (22:35) emotional because we're beating ourselves up about wanting to eat something that we think is bad for (22:42) us instead of understanding why we want to eat it. I do have a food timeline tracking tool that I put (22:49) in the show notes, and you can do that a couple different ways.You could do it both ways even. (22:54) And so some of it is like the physical side of it. How am I feeling, you know, before, during, (23:00) after and long after my meal physically, you know, stomach upset, headache, whatever.But then you (23:07) can also use it for the emotional side of things too. You know, before I ate whatever it was, (23:12) how was I feeling in that moment? You know, during, you know, maybe a couple bites in, (23:17) you're still feeling great. But then like halfway in, you're like, oh, I shouldn't be eating this.(23:22) But yeah, you keep eating it, you know, you know, even after how'd you feel? How are you like (23:26) feeling emotionally right after and then even long after? How can someone start creating distance (23:31) between an emotional trigger and a sugary response? Awareness is the first thing without judgment. (23:38) Okay, like that could be your absolute superpower. And I know it's so hard, right? Because we judge (23:42) everything we judge ourselves, like, you know, sometimes I was raised by people that judge (23:46) everybody.Right. So I agree learning that. So when a craving hits again, like we're just we're (23:51) creating a little bit of space.And it's taking a few seconds to be like, there's something going (23:54) on here, like, ooh, what is this? And it kind of interrupts that autopilot where you're just (23:58) reaching for the snacks. And then the next right again is be like, then you just with curiosity, (24:04) what is happening? What do I really like? What's really happening right now? Again, (24:09) am I anxious? Am I being like bored? Right? I can eat so much when I'm bored. It doesn't even have (24:14) to be like feeling overwhelmed.A lot of times it is but there's like boredom in there too. So (24:19) I think if you just be aware, don't judge, and just get curious, your body will be telling you (24:27) what's happening. And then you can decide what you actually need.And you know what, (24:32) maybe sometimes it is actual hunger. And that's okay, too. Right? We're just actually really (24:37) hungry.Like it versus us always just beating ourselves up because we should be doing this (24:43) and should be doing that. So let's go. Yeah, yeah.I don't know if I've ever asked you. (24:48) Did you ever watch Ted Lasso? Yes. Oh, my God.I love that. (24:52) Because you said to be curious. Yeah.I know. It's so funny. I was like, (24:56) so true.Yeah, but it is true. I mean, when it comes to this and life and other stuff, (25:02) because especially when you are logging stuff, like I mentioned, like with, you know, with the (25:07) food timeline and stuff, if you choose to do something like that, yeah, you can't feel guilty (25:11) about it. Sure.It might help you, you know, prevent you from having something super like, (25:16) oh, my gosh, if I got to write that down, it might help you in that way. But either way, (25:20) like, I wouldn't want somebody to use it for that necessarily. Like, I want you to just (25:24) do whatever you normally do and write it down.And yeah, not judge yourself for it, (25:29) because you are being curious about all of these triggers. And that's how you're going to, (25:33) you know, how you're going to get there. Yeah.Or I do the like, I'll just eat it so fast, (25:37) like it never happened. But I have to laugh at myself because I've done, you know, everything (25:42) that people are embarrassed to talk about. Like I've done that.So, yep. I mean, I probably have (25:47) to at some point. Maybe not in the same way.But yeah, for sure. We both have our journeys that (25:54) have gotten us here, you know, so that we can can teach others, you know, everything that we (25:59) that we did wrong. How does mindful eating play a role in disrupting the cycle? You just touched on (26:04) that a little bit.But if we want to get a little bit more in depth with that one. Yeah, for sure. (26:10) So I think making intentional choices.So like we said, you're not going to never eat chocolate (26:16) cake again, right? But if you're like, let go feeling around chocolate cake, if I'm at a party (26:20) and my friend makes the best chocolate cake ever, and I want to have the chocolate cake, (26:25) I'm going to intentionally have that. And I'm going to give myself permission to enjoy it (26:31) with all of my senses, right? How does it smell? How does it feel in my mouth? How does it taste? (26:36) I'm not biting and swallowing, like I just talked about, not shoving it down and eating (26:40) it super quick. I'm actually enjoying the food.So I'm not punishing myself. I'm not just inhaling (26:45) it. And then, you know, maybe you don't need the whole piece of chocolate cake if you're enjoying (26:51) with permission.Or maybe you find out something that you don't like. It's funny, we had a client, (26:56) she was so funny. Once once she started giving herself permission to start eating some things (27:01) like pizza.Guess what? She doesn't actually like pizza. She's like, I don't enjoy it. Like, (27:06) and it's all the healthy version.Like, she's like, I've tried all that. It's just not my thing, (27:10) which I was like, how do you not like pizza? But she gave herself permission to really enjoy it. (27:16) And that's when she was like, I don't enjoy it.But before she was literally just shoveling (27:19) pizza in and not noticing if she really enjoyed it or not. So yeah, yeah. I know like one thing (27:26) you even told me along for like a long time ago now, but but putting your fork down in between (27:31) bites.Yeah, you know, that just makes you way more aware of, of how much you're consuming what (27:39) you're consuming, if you're actually enjoying what you're consuming, for sure. Yeah, that one's been (27:44) been a huge one. I know, like, I always tell myself, like, it used to be kind of like, well, (27:49) this isn't worth the calories.But, you know, yeah, right. Because I don't, I don't focus on (27:54) counting calories at all. But yeah, if I take a bite of something, and if it's something that I (27:59) am treating myself to, it better be worth it, you know? And if it's not, then I'm like, yeah, (28:04) I'm not going to.But that's where you can get into that mindlessness of like, well, (28:08) I told myself I was gonna have this chocolate cake. And if it's even if it's not that good, (28:11) I'm just gonna finish this piece, you know? Yeah, like, no, actually, if you're gonna treat yourself, (28:16) then enjoy it instead of mindlessly just continuing because you think you should. (28:20) Yeah.And then and yeah, right. I deserve it. So I'm eating this whole piece of cake.But wouldn't (28:25) it be nice to know if it was a shitty piece of chocolate cake two bites in? You know what I mean? (28:29) Like, they're a chocolate cake that you're like, this is heaven on a plate. And like, but versus like (28:35) that wasn't Brad still says that it's not worth calories. I'm like, oh, he's doing like fitness (28:40) mindset, like bodybuilding mindset from years ago.But yeah, it's really funny. Because yeah, (28:45) I want to know if it's worth it. And if it's not, and I just walk away.And there's no guilt, (28:49) because I'm not enjoying it. It's not because I can't have it. It's because I don't enjoy it.(28:54) And that's it. Exactly. Yeah.Yep. What's one myth about sugar addiction or emotional eating (28:59) that you'd love to bust? This is another favorite question of mine. And I think you and I like are (29:04) totally on we're on the same page about so many things.But this this is the one where I'm like, (29:08) I want to bang my head against a wall. You don't need more willpower. I wish the word willpower did (29:13) not exist.I mean, I think I lived most of my life with like willpower and you just drive through (29:17) and you just push through. You don't need to try harder. You don't need to be disciplined.You (29:21) don't need more self control, right? Like that really, it really has nothing to do with how (29:28) strong you are. Because we just talked about like, this is like totally about brain chemistry, (29:33) and how your brain is wired in this moment, right now, not how it's going to be in a week, (29:38) two weeks or five years. Like you can absolutely change it, right? Because this is about Yeah, (29:45) it's about it's about like, like I said, brain chemistry, it's about blood sugar and stability, (29:49) like we talked about.It's about habit loops. It's about emotional coping patterns. You're not (29:54) weak.I can't even say it enough. Like you are not weak. You just don't have the tools that you (29:59) need or the support that you need now.But you can get it and you can absolutely change your life (30:03) and not that much time. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that one for sure.Yeah. So client shift from guilt (30:13) and shame into motivators, they're traps. So we need to learn how to start beating ourselves up.(30:19) Okay, like that's a hard one. That really is the hard one. But I think if you just pause, (30:25) and again, listen, I gotta I gotta quote Ted, like just be curious, right? And then and we don't (30:31) judge.And so the pausing has been really, really huge, especially if you start having that thought (30:37) like, Oh my god, I shouldn't have done that pause, stop right then and there and just take a few (30:41) breaths and start asking yourself better questions. What do I need right now? Because as (30:48) women, we take care of so many other people and we do for other people. We're taking care of (30:52) everybody else's needs.Like what do I need right now? What what is it? And maybe maybe it really is (30:58) I just need to eat something or I just need some protein or maybe it's I just need to get a hug or (31:04) call a friend or set a boundary. That's a big one. But once we do that and start like really stopping (31:10) even for a few minutes and then taking care of ourselves like that to me is so empowering.(31:15) That's where the magic happens. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely just you have to learn from it.I mean, (31:20) it's going to happen, especially if you're just starting in your journey. But you just have to (31:25) learn from it and then come up with your plan for the next time that situation arises. And also, (31:30) I mean, just celebrating all those small wins.So maybe you go a day and you are still eating (31:35) everything that you know is not going to make you feel the greatest. But maybe you do have a good day (31:39) where you just pass up like something in the office that somebody brought in. Like that's still (31:43) a huge win.We just I feel like us as people, we focus on the negative so much. And so we just need (31:50) to shift right to like, yeah, focusing on all those positive, just smallest little little wins. (31:56) And that's just going to compile.And yeah, keep going from there to help you ultimately, (32:02) you know, get to where you want to be. We don't need to be perfect. Like you said, (32:06) like we don't need to be perfect.Like if you're making a change or one change or it was better (32:10) than yesterday or you're doing something versus, you know, nothing, just like I forget it. I'm (32:14) just getting a bag of chips and just go down the old rabbit hole. Like, yeah, you're winning if (32:19) you're not doing if you're taking small steps, for sure.Yeah. Yeah. Where was it? Was there (32:24) a breakthrough moment for you or maybe even a client where emotional eating turned into healing? (32:29) This is a good one.Yeah. So I this makes me think of one of my one of my clients. She's she's funny, (32:35) right? Because she's like, I can't have we all do this, right? There are certain things I just (32:40) can't have in the house.I can't have like chocolate bars. I can't have whatever. So she (32:44) was always talking about these like little mini chocolate bars.Right. And so that she just could (32:48) not have them. And so one day on a call, we're just talking and I'm like, what if you like stop (32:53) trying to control food, right? Like stop trying to control like I can't have this around and I (32:57) can't be around this.And just listening again to what the craving is actually telling you. (33:01) And she works from home a lot. And she was like, hell, I like I don't think I've had any social (33:07) interaction today.I think I'm missing social interaction. And I work with a lot of high (33:12) powered women who are lonely because they travel a lot or they work from home and they're single (33:17) or like or they're busy doing for everybody all day long. And so that was like really the shift (33:21) for her.She's like, oh, I'm a social being forced to work from home. And that doesn't work for me. (33:27) And again, because she's single, she could be like in her house and be like, she's like, (33:30) there could be days I don't talk to anybody, but I can eat a bunch of chocolate.I can go to the (33:35) store and like eat that. Right. So now she can be like, what do I really need? What do I really (33:40) need and what's really going on? Yeah.You said that I can't word too. Yeah. Right.Yeah. Even (33:45) just changing that thinking. Not I can't.But, you know, I'm I'm just not doing that. I'm not (33:51) doing that because I have X, Y and Z goals, you know, like that just changes that mindset. (33:58) Sort of, again, just trying to willpower through something.But when you kind of spin it around (34:03) and say, I'm not having that, even if you say I'm not going to have that today instead of I can't, (34:08) because then that's all your brain wants to think about. Yeah. Yeah.And I'm not having it today. (34:13) Like, let's just take it day by day. Yeah.Does it really matter? You know, it's yeah, it's funny (34:19) because sometimes when people sit down and they're like starting a 90 day program, like I need to know (34:24) every step. And I'm like, no, because, you know, but people like planners and especially busy women, (34:30) they're like, I need to plan. Like, I live by my planner.Like, OK, well, you know, we'll we'll (34:34) take it. Yes. I know.I mean, you probably get this, too. But one one thing like I tell my (34:39) clients throughout is just embrace the process. Yeah.You know, same thing. Yeah. Day by day, (34:44) meal by meal.Yeah. Whatever it is like embrace the process. And in the end, they always say (34:49) I really appreciated this process.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. But the unknown is scary, (34:55) like they get it right. Yeah.Have you ever had to reframe a craving as a deeper unmet need? (35:02) And how did that go? Or maybe if you think of a client example as well? Yeah. Yeah. I know I (35:07) brought up the one about about the Diet Coke, but a lot of times it's like connection.I feel like (35:13) most of my ladies are missing connection with other like human beings, really. And I feel like (35:19) that, you know, that can happen to me, too, a lot, because sometimes I will work and I don't (35:23) want to see this as you like I'm home working a lot. And then if my son is with his dad and then (35:28) it's like quiet at night that I'm too, I'm like, I barely had any like social interaction.And if (35:33) there's food around, like I can I really I can like eat that when I'm like, I just need I need (35:39) connection. And now, of course, there are days where I just want quiet, too. So I think it's (35:43) really like, what do you need? You know, because I mean, I had like one of those like a couple (35:49) weeks ago where I'd been home.It was like the second day at home, like from working at home (35:52) and not really talking to anybody. And I was at home that night. And I'm like, I was like, (35:57) I'm going to get in this in my car and go drive for like is even takeout.And I was like, no, (36:03) stop. What do you need? You have food at home. And then I just texted a friend and we were just (36:07) like making like silly jokes.And I was like, this is kind of like this is really what I needed. (36:12) And so sometimes it's connection on a deeper level, though. Like sometimes, like I said, (36:16) we have, you know, we're busy.And then, you know, it's months that you haven't seen a friend (36:21) or connected with someone besides like your little family unit. Like you got to connect (36:26) with other people. Yeah.Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely different for different people.(36:32) You know, you kind of bring up a good point there. No, I don't think I could be a hermit. (36:35) But there are some days where, yeah, like I just love my quiet.I love my alone time. You know, (36:42) my husband travels for work. And so sometimes I get that.But then like for me, instead of (36:47) going to food, a lot of times it's exercise. It's even just now just like fresh air. Yeah, (36:52) I have definitely learned how to to cope with that more.But yeah, I think you're right. The (36:56) connection piece is what I feel like. Yeah.Part of eating and, you know, sometimes the sugar (37:03) addiction that goes along with it. And I love that you brought up exercise. That's one of those (37:07) healthy coping mechanisms versus chocolate cake all the time.Yes. Yes. Much healthier.Yeah. I (37:14) mean, and just breaking that cycle then by doing it because you do that a few times and then your (37:18) mind's going to be like, wow, well, I actually felt good by doing that. So, yeah.What's something (37:23) that you wish more women understood about cravings and emotional hunger? OK, besides willpower, (37:28) besides willpower, that you can change the pattern, you can break the pattern like this is (37:32) not this is not what is set up for you for life. Right. You're not doomed to be like, (37:37) I can't control my cravings.I can't walk by the candy aisle. You know, I'm only I'm going to be (37:41) this weight for X amount of for the rest of my life. Right.I'm sure you hear this, too. I can't (37:46) lose weight because now all of it is like it's not maybe some of it's easier, but it doesn't have to (37:52) be a crazy hard process if we learn to tune in and figure out what works for us. I think that's (37:59) another thing.Right. Is that please stop judging yourself against, you know, any man that you're (38:04) around because they're just on, you know, totally different with their eating and the way their body (38:09) like just burns fat like that. Yeah.And that you can you can absolutely change. You can totally (38:14) take control, even if it's the tiniest step. You can totally do it.Yeah. At any point, anytime, (38:22) like any age. I mean, yeah.I mean, you're you're a great example of that. You didn't just accept (38:28) that all of this medical stuff was happening, you know, to you. Yeah.You let it happen for you. And (38:35) you then took control and you started discovering, you know, what else was out there. And unfortunately, (38:41) like especially in the medical system, I feel like.But, you know, when they hand you a diagnosis, (38:46) it's also a lifelong condition is what they tell you or, you know, whatever else. Yeah. You know, (38:51) that that means you're going to have to have this for the rest of your life.Like and so, yeah, (38:55) if you just accept that, then yeah, then that's that's what you're setting yourself up for. And (38:59) you're going to feel stuck the rest of your life with that. But there is so much more that you can (39:06) do to improve your symptoms, maybe even heal completely instead of just accepting, you know, (39:11) whatever it is.Yeah. And I think you said this on one of your podcasts, like they specialists (39:16) only know a piece, like even my OBGYN, who I absolutely adored, like who got me through all (39:22) the surgery and all that. If she had known a little bit more, I also wasn't very straightforward (39:28) about the amount of sugar I was eating because I was in denial.But maybe if she had known a little (39:32) bit more about that, maybe we could have talked diet stuff as prevention. Like I was already needed (39:37) surgery, but like on the prevention side of it. Exactly.Yeah. Yeah. So if you could tell your (39:42) past self one thing about sugar and emotional eating, what would it be? That emotional eating (39:50) is just a signal slash like it's kind of like it's not really a problem.It's a symptom. Right. (39:55) Like I if I had looked back and actually tuned in, I would have saw that I wasn't being weak (39:59) because trying to not eat sugar wasn't working for me.Right. Just trying. But I was overwhelmed (40:04) and I was undernourished.As you had said before, I was using sugar to cope with stress, also burnout (40:09) and exhaustion. Like I needed caffeine and sugar. And I used to say that my coffee was just like (40:14) a transport mechanism for my sugar because I had so much sugar in there.Yeah. Just to get through (40:20) the day. And I wasn't really taught to listen to my body.But if I had just done that. Right. So I'd (40:25) just be like, you know, you just need to understand yourself.You just need to listen to your body (40:28) and understand what works for you. And then you can break the cycle. Yeah.Your body is talking (40:34) to you. You just listen for sure. Yeah.What's one simple daily habit or mindset, mindset shift (40:41) that you would recommend to start healing? Oh, good one. I would say treat your self care. I (40:47) know that word is used so much, but as like it's a non-negotiable, it's not a reward for like (40:52) next week or the weekend.Again, women, we take care of everybody else. Right. And so we need to (40:57) take care of ourselves a little bit more, even if it's five minutes a day, like you said, go for a (41:04) walk or you sit with your morning coffee.Like that's what I love to do is sit with my morning (41:08) coffee when it's quiet. That's why I'll get up before anybody else. So, you know, it's it really (41:12) is taking care of yourself and sending that signal to right to the brain.I am so I am safe. I am (41:19) taking care of myself because I matter and I'm taking care of my needs. And then it really does.(41:25) And if this one takes a little bit more time with self-care, but then you you feel like less (41:31) out of control, less overwhelmed when you take care of yourself. And so then you ultimately (41:36) start relying less on sugar and food to manage your emotions. Yeah.Yeah. I heard something. (41:42) I had something a while back.Self-care is selfless. Yeah, because it's that age old, (41:48) you know, put your your own oxygen mask on before you put on anybody else's or, you know, (41:53) you got to fill up your own cup before you can fill up anybody else's. It's so true.And like, (41:56) I mean, yeah, I don't have kids, but as a nurse, I feel like I was always in that caregiver (42:01) mode. And I kind of just naturally have that, you know, so I just want to take care of everybody (42:06) and everything and, you know, hyperachiever. And so, yeah, like it did.It took me I mean, (42:12) it took me my, you know, wake up call a few years ago to be like, I do need to take a minute, (42:17) you know, five minutes, 10 minutes, whatever it is. Sometimes it's longer. Other days, (42:22) sometimes it's shorter.But just to do something, you know, for myself. Sure. Yeah.And anyone who's (42:29) listening is like, I don't have time for that. OK, so why don't you do why don't you do a little (42:33) self-care for seven days in a row and then don't do it and tell me which days feel better? Exactly. (42:40) Yeah.Yeah. Just commit to a few days for sure. Yeah.So last question, where can listeners (42:46) learn more about your work and connect with you? Yeah, awesome. So you can just go to my website, (42:52) which is empower-wellnesscoaching.com. I'm also on Instagram sugar underscore coach. Don't know why (43:00) I picked that.Maybe somebody had something like similar. But I also have created a school (43:04) community for those that don't know school, SKOOL, which is just a great community. We wanted to just (43:10) be, you know, where we can all speak openly and create a community of women that really want to (43:14) each other up.So if you go to school, look for us. It's the Mind and Body Reset Hub. (43:20) So I would love to connect.Is there anything else that you would like to share, (43:25) like something that I see in the background, maybe? Oh, and my cookbook. I am terrible about (43:30) this stuff. Thank you, Lindsay.On my website, you can get the digital version of it or this (43:36) lovely version is on Amazon. So, yeah, yummy recipes that are all gluten free, low glycemic (43:43) index, basically won't mess with your blood sugar. And there's, yes, still some sweets in (43:48) there that you can.Yes. And simple. I love the just simple, you know, easy.It doesn't (43:53) have to get complicated. So, yeah, love those recipes. Definitely.Yeah. Thanks for bringing (43:59) that up. Yeah, that was when I was creating these recipes or picking the ones that I love.I'm like, (44:03) there are so many cookbooks I love from like famous, you know, holistic doctors. And I'm like (44:08) twenty five ingredients later. I'm like, oh, my God, like it's I want it to be simple and that you (44:12) would probably have most of the things at your house.Exactly. Yeah. Which I love about that.(44:18) Awesome. Well, thank you for joining and sharing all that good stuff. (44:23) Thank you for having me.