Sleep impacts everything—cravings, mood, stress, energy, digestion, blood sugar, and hormonal balance—and for women with PCOS, poor sleep can quietly drive insulin resistance and cortisol higher, making weight loss and cycle regulation feel impossible. In this episode, Lindsie welcomes Kate Lazzarotti (KCL Wellness), a National Board-Certified Health & Wellness Coach and integrative nutritionist, to explore the Traditional Chinese Medicine “Horary Body Clock”—a framework that maps which organs are most active and regenerating at different hours of the night. Kate breaks down what your body may be doing during key windows, especially 9–11 PM (triple burner/endocrine + metabolic rhythm), 11 PM–1 AM (gallbladder + bile flow), and 1–3 AM (liver detoxification)—and how waking at the same time nightly can be a clue, not a random flaw. You’ll also hear practical, real-life wind-down strategies (lymphatic massage, dry brushing, castor oil packs, temperature changes, and food timing), plus a deeper lens: how stress, cortisol, and even stored emotions can affect sleep quality and organ function. The episode closes with a quick recap and an invitation to join The Anti-Resolution Revolution (Jan 26–31)—a free, gamified event designed to help listeners understand why resolutions fail and what actually creates sustainable change.
Register for the Anti-Resolution Revolution (Jan 26–31) — free daily recordings delivered to inbox with a game-ified. twist; focus on why resolutions fail + sustainable change
(0:00 - 39:30) May well since we're talking about fertility a bit here your hormones during that 9 to 11 period they regenerate too especially for women it matters because our estrogen our progesterone and our hormones are all influenced by our sleep and for those of us post menopause or those who have irregular cycles or are trying to get pregnant this is so imperative because sleep is a huge component of those hormone balance issues that is so much overlooked so you know I had fertility issues when I was trying to get pregnant and all of this comes into play when it when fertility issues are at the forefront for some people and it does get overlooked you don't think of that but or our hormones are synthesized through our gut but only if our gut is regenerated during the night.
Hey friend welcome back to PCOS Unfiltered Nourish Heal Thrive I'm your host Lindsie and today we're talking about something that everyone knows matters but most of us still treat like it's optional sleep because when sleep is off everything feels off cravings, mood, stress, energy, digestion, blood sugar, even your cycle and for women with PCOS poor sleep can quietly crank up insulin resistance and cortisol making it hard to lose weight regulate hormones and feel like yourself again that's why I'm excited about today's guest Kate Lazzarotti. Kate is a National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach an integrative nutritionist and the founder of KCL Wellness where she helps women take charge of their health through strategic lifestyle change. Her work is rooted in a simple but powerful belief your body wants to be well it's your job to give her the conditions to thrive.
In this episode we're diving into a traditional Chinese medicine tool called the Horary body clock basically a map of what your organs are doing at different hours of the night and how it can help you understand why you might be waking at the same time every night, why digestion feels worse when sleep is inconsistent, and how your body's detox and hormone regeneration are tied to your bedtime routine. We also talk about practical real-life strategies from what to do between 9 and 11 p.m. to simple wind down rituals, temperature changes in the body, nighttime bathroom trips, and even how shift workers can make this work without feeling helpless. So if you've ever said I'm exhausted but I can't sleep or I wake up at 2 30 every night or I'm doing all the things and my body still feels stuck this one's for you.
Just a reminder the content shared on PCOS Unfiltered is for informational and educational purposes only. The views and opinions expressed by the host and guests are not intended to serve as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making any changes to your diet exercise or treatment plan. The information shared is based on personal experience and expert interviews and is not a substitute for professional medical guidance. As always, take what resonates, leave what doesn't, and use this episode as an invitation to get curious about what your body has been trying to tell you all along. And be sure to listen to the end for a special offer on something we have coming up in just a few days. All right, now let's jump into this episode.
Hello, welcome. Welcome to Kate. Super excited for this topic because sleep. We all we all need to talk about sleep. It just it's I think it just becomes kind of a vicious cycle sometimes. You know it affects so many other things and that's what we're gonna dive into but if you want to just kind of start by introducing yourself and you know what you do and who you are and how you got here. Sure, so I am Kate. I am National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coach and I own KCL Wellness and I am what do I do? I help women advance their health through lifestyle change. So part of that is of course sleep and helping them to truly create a nighttime ritual they adore and they refuse to go without. So you know there are a lot of non-negotiables in life that we set for ourselves but one of them is not centered around sleep. So I try truly to help people understand the importance of sleep and how it affects their entire health system. So from immunity to gut health to liver health to lung health it's all connected and if we don't focus on that as a priority a top priority then our health can be affected. So I incorporate all of that into my protocols for my women and it really has proven to be a long-lasting benefit for them. Yeah so let's kind of get started talking about this body clock the horari. I don't know why that's a mouthful for me but yeah what what is it exactly? Yeah so the horary body clock is a traditional Chinese medicine tool that maps out how each of the organs regenerate themselves at which hour. So and there's the the day clock too which explains in the in the clock it explains what your body is doing through every hour of the day but if we're focused on sleeping we focus on the the time that our body starts to quiet down for sleep. So the horari body clock maps all of that out for us and it tells us what our organs are doing during that certain process. So if you are a believer of that and you follow that you can really put your body into that rhythm and understand what it is that your body is doing during those hours so that you can best give her the optimal conditions to thrive during those times. Yeah yeah and I'll just for those watching on video I'll just have a cut off here and kind of get a general idea but of course you can always you know Google it as well to also see it more you know visually but we're gonna kind of break it down.
So even starting I mean bedtime typical bedtime for a lot of people yeah I'd say by 10 hopefully but I mean even as early as like 9 p.m. ish things start to happen right so can you can you kind of start there? Yeah so at certain times of the evening our body naturally starts to quiet down for bed and for most of us that period begins at 9 o'clock p.m. where we should start winding down because that's what our ancestors did and believe it or not our bodies respond very well when we mimic what it is that our ancestors did long long ago. So in bed by you know the time the Sun went down was generally what they did now in today's world that's impossible for most of us but at 9 o'clock we really should start putting our phones away getting into our nighttime routine no more food that's a big one for people no more food no screen time but really allowing your body to start to understand okay it's bedtime because whatever you tell her she's gonna listen to so if you tell her that 9 o'clock is the time to wind down she's gonna understand that and she's gonna start to get into that mode so 9 o'clock is the time when our triple burner starts to regenerate so the triple burner is not necessarily tied to any organ the way the rest of the timing is on the clock but it is time to our metabolism and our endocrine system so during this time our body starts to regenerate our immune system and our digestive system all of these together even our hormonal system like our thyroid starts to regenerate during this time so if we're not in the mode of relaxation and getting ready to go to sleep between these hours we miss that regeneration it does not happen if we're not in a horizontal position by 10 o'clock and just relaxing to allow our body to regenerate so that's basically where it starts at 9 o'clock and and you know we really should be able to get ourselves into a position where we are ready to sleep by 10 o'clock so that's in between the hours of 9 and 11 which is that when the triple burner to get itself ready to regenerate and if we're not we miss that process so when you think about it our immune system so many of us get sick so many of us can't you know we get a cold and it lasts forever we're not allowing our body that time to regenerate between the hours of 9 and 11 so that's one of the reasons why coming up with a nighttime routine is so crucial for our health yeah I mean you said so many good things there because I like throughout my program as well I talk about our ancestors ate you know and what and and stress how stress ties into all of that you know and how things are so accessible right now and I think it's very similar you know with the clock like you mentioned as far as like times of the year like because my my thinking is okay it's winter right now so I know even for me we we tend to eat like you know me and my husband tend to eat earlier this time of year because the Sun goes down I think earlier and you're you know versus in the summer at least you know for us here in the States obviously but then in the summer obviously the Sun is going down later so I always feel like I eat later but how can that yeah like how can that affect with the Sun going down earlier versus later and the times that you're talking to the fact that you know this window absolutely it definitely does and we just have to be cognizant of it your body your body has that clock and it doesn't really shift much so and hopefully we're going to get into shift workers a little bit later and how that affects them but um you need to be cognizant of what it is that your body is asking you to do and if it's later that you know we the Sun goes down later in the summer so we tend to be up more we tend to eat later we tend to maybe you know have more activity later in the night because it's summer but that does affect what we well how we sleep so even in the summer if you can get yourself to bed by 10 1030 that is still ideal okay good to know I'm gonna say gut health that was the other thing you brought up digestion so yes got help super important obviously as we're you know as we know as many people are learning so yeah how can this this time also affect gut health even more yeah so the gut is connected to everything and as a gut health coach myself I am a firm believer in this so our gut is where our immunity lives our gut builds our serotonin it also builds melatonin so when we don't sleep correctly these things cannot generate for us they do not generate so which is why if we go to bed late so many times we wake up feeling tired or bloated or swollen in our joints and whatever else but our digestive digestion is directly effect affected by how we sleep because during the night our gut lining repairs our liver detoxifies itself and regenerates our gallbladder does the same and then our lungs do the same thing and our lungs are directly connected to our gut as well and so many people don't realize that but our gut speaks to our body in the same way our brain does it has its own nervous system it's called the enteric nervous nervous system and it has as many neurons if not more than our brain does and it's all connected through the vagus nerve so when we're not getting that sleep and our gut lining is not regenerating our immune system is compromised we're not building the serotonin that we need to and the melatonin does not create in order for us to get that deep good night's sleep that we need for our body to feel regenerated in the morning yeah what are some good like wind down practices around this time that you talk about with your clients yes so I have three staples that I absolutely love the first one is lymphatic massage I recommend everyone to do a lymphatic massage and it can start right at the face and work your way through the body or at the toes and work your way up and it's a beautiful way to relax not only to relax but then to move the lymph around in your system because our lymph system does not have a drainage point so when we work that lymph we work it out of the the places where it pools and we send it to the liver so the liver can detoxify it and get it out of our system where it does not belong so that's the first thing that I love to recommend the other thing is dry brushing dry brushing before a shower helps with lymph again it helps to detoxify your skin it's also a very nice relaxing way to begin your evening and then a warm shower or a warm bath after really helps to set the stage for a beautiful night's sleep the third thing that I love for my clients is castor oil packs I highly highly recommend this for everyone I use castor oil on my face every night as a natural Botox and then I put it on my thyroid because it helps to penetrate and helps to really get down into the cellular level and help things just stay healthy but the best place I love to put it is on my abdomen around my liver on the kidney area and cover it with a cloth because it can be messy because it's so thick and it does stain but I love to leave that on overnight sometimes with a heating pad sometimes without you don't need to and it again it just helps to penetrate deep down into the cellular level and help our organs heal and their studies behind it that shows that this is proven to work so those are the three things that I love to tell my clients to do in order to truly get a great night's sleep of course there's other things like you know sitting quietly with a candle reading a book meditating reading your affirmations however you do your devotional cards all of those things are a great way to get yourself ready for bed one of the important things also to keep in mind is to not eat anything within two to three hours of bedtime because our body if you do our bodies need to digest that food and if you eat close to bedtime your body is digesting that while you're getting ready to sleep and you are going to be disturbed your sleep is going to be disturbed if you eat too close to bedtime so those are the things that I really like to just mention to people and incorporate into a protocol to make sure you get a good night's sleep yeah just curious how do you put the castor oil on your face like do you you just leave it on there I do and then so you just have to bedding wise and all that stuff after I try to sleep on my back holding my hair back and then when I put it on I do massage it in it is a little goopy but I'm in and I just leave it and then by the morning it's absorbed and I just have a little bit left and I just pat it in but it's I notice a difference in my skin tone and that my skin is nice and hydrated in the morning so I make all of my own skincare products as well so my own oils and as a base I do use the castor oil so I'm using it night and day and it really is a great it's a great tool to have in your toolbox yeah that's awesome love that lots of good stuff there I know one thing so especially this 9 to 11 p.m. so there's some temperature regulation you know happening within the body I know like for us we have the thermostat automatically set to start going down so can you kind of maybe talk about how that might be playing a role in preparation for sleep as well yeah so on our body normally during those times when we get tired I don't know if anybody might recognize it but when you get tired you get chilly right you tend to put on a blanket and get cozy this is your body letting you know that it's time to sleep and when your temperature goes down it's that nesting period it's that feeling of okay I need to take care of my body at this point exactly like you said when our we regulate our the temperatures in our homes in order to feel comfortable this is what your body is doing internally as well and you know off-topic just slightly our bodies are amazing vessels so without any help from us or thought from us whatsoever it's doing this thing all on its own homeostasis right that's what it's called in order to keep us as healthy as possible and your body wants to be well and it's not to you to provide her with the optimal conditions to thrive and this is part of it so she's telling you what she wants you need to listen and the temperature is is definitely part of that and that goes along too with our fertility how when we're tracking how to get pregnant our base levels our basal temperature and stuff like that it all goes hand in hand so like I said she's talking to you and it's up to us to listen to her and really understand what it is that she needs and the temperature part of that can't stress that that piece enough about listening because you know I didn't listen for the longest time yeah I can talk about all that stuff now and help people you know I do I love it I love my like I said my main goal is to advance women's health through lifestyle change but the only way that that happens if you're is if you're intentional to what your behaviors are to learn the signals of your body because she's talking to you and we we don't know her language because we haven't listened but unlike learning a new language you know it's it's easier to learn an actual language when you're younger but learning the language of your body there's never a bad time to do that and you can always learn you just need to learn to listen and to understand what it is that she's telling you because once you have that nobody can take that away from you right it's not a resolution it's not something that you're depending on a practitioner to give you like a medication a shot something you know in your face none of that once you know the language of your body and you understand that's yours for life and that's huge when it comes to your house yeah yeah and you just touched on you know be the body temperature too which it's not something I've talked a whole lot about but like I use it just to track my cycles in general you know it's yes I think I think it became more popular for fertility that's no reasons and so for anybody that's listening whether you are trying to get pregnant or just you know worried about regulating your cycle I always encourage them so just start tracking that you know a simple temperature check in the morning or even now like my you know my Apple watch does it all for me and it like I stopped checking it in the morning because it's accurate that's if you wear your Apple watch at night but but yeah I mean it's it's great for tracking all of that and then kind of can give you some answers can help you start listening to your body because you might be saying well why am I experiencing this during certain times of the month well if you start you know realizing okay my temperature is doing this my body's not you know that's correlating with this phase of my cycle my body isn't getting optimal rest because of you know yeah it can play a role and all of that yeah and if I may well since we're talking about fertility a bit here your hormones during that 9 to 11 period they regenerate to especially for women it matters because our estrogen our progesterone and our hormones are all influenced by our sleep and for those of us post menopause or those who have irregular cycles or are trying to get pregnant this is so imperative because sleep is a huge component of those hormone balance issues that is so much overlooked so you know I had fertility issues when I was trying to get pregnant and all of this comes into play when it when fertility issues are at the forefront for some people and it does get overlooked you don't think of that but or our hormones are synthesized through our gut but only if our gut is regenerated during the night yeah make sense
so let's kind of move on to the the next kind of window of time 11 p.m. to 1 a.m. where the gallbladder is you know kind of kicking in so can you explain kind of what's happening more during that time yes so the gallbladder is where our bile is produced and the bile is essential because it's where the it's stored in the liver so when we eat too close to bedtime or when we are eating processed foods during the day or whatever else that's making our gallbladder work all the harder and when it works all the harder it will let you know so if you're waking between the hours of 11 and 1 then you can guarantee that it is your gallbladder letting you know that you know I don't like the way you treated me today so now I'm gonna wake you up but it's it's all connected to how we are treating ourselves during the day how we're we're setting up our nighttime rituals and getting ourselves ready for this good sleep so of course when we think about the gallbladder and the liver we think about toxins and you know whether that's too much alcohol or even you know the stuff that we use on our skin if we're using ingredients that are considered chemical disruptors then you know that definitely is a toxin and it it does put a burden on our organs so that's something that we have to think about the other thing is that when we take vitamins our fat soluble vitamins like our A's D's E's K's they are not going to absorb without adequate bile flow so we can think that we're eating as healthy as we are but if we don't have adequate bile flow then we're not going to absorb those and we can end up deficient in that so that's why it's really important there it also our bile also has antimicrobial properties in it and if we aren't careful then it can affect the microbiome of our gut if we aren't treating you know we're eating and treating our sleep with the respect that it so deserves so you mentioned the vitamin deficiencies what are some other symptoms that like you know that could be showing up if your gallbladder is saying hey I need I need some love here definitely digestion issues so if we aren't careful and get to bed during a certain time the our digestion will definitely slow down so they're bloated the bloating is a big one bowel movements are another big one and I talk about those all the time with my clients and at first they're like wait a minute we really got to talk about this but it's part of a healthy life yeah part of it so it's all connected there and if we're not producing the if our gallbladder is not producing the bile the way that it should then we are going to have certain issues it's really interesting to me too that a lot of people have their gallbladder removed when they have their gallbladder removed their doctors don't necessarily tell them that they shouldn't be eating certain foods like fatty foods because that's where the fatty foods are broken down right our gallbladder helps with that so they're really are so many different things for us to consider when we have an organ removed whether it's our gallbladder or thyroid we really need to think about okay if I don't have that organ to process this kind of food what should I be eating and unfortunately we don't necessarily get a lesson in that so we have to learn by trial and correction I mean it's super important so obviously if somebody is staying up past 11 p.m. then you know they could be starting to experience some of these things mm-hmm yeah and it the timing for these regeneration periods does not shift there are certain ones that are much more stringent than others but you know we this is why we have to be cognizant of our bedtime yeah for sure mm-hmm so yeah getting into the liver you know you kind of mentioned a little bit but definitely the 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. is when it sounds like kind of the deep detoxification process really starts happening so yeah let's what's going on the most common time for people to wake in the morning whenever I when my clients are telling me oh I can't sleep or I wake up or we go through the whole process and then I'm like okay well what times you wake up in the morning I always wake up at 230 I don't understand okay well ding ding ding here's the reason why our liver our liver is the most amazing organ it detoxifies everything we do to ourselves so our again if we're eating poorly if we eat too close to bedtime if we're drinking alcohol if we aren't eating the right things for our body so many of us so many of us are intolerant to foods that we don't even know about so if we're eating those foods and we don't know it and our liver is trying to detox the things that are making us not well it's gonna show up here so it goes through its deep detoxification process while we sleep and if it doesn't go through that process correctly so many symptoms can occur at the time so we just need to truly be cognizant of what we put in our bodies how close to bedtime we put it in our bodies you know inflammation to inflammation is a huge thing for people these days and if we're not detoxifying properly then our hormones don't metabolize correctly we do not get a fresh blood flow every day because this is what the liver does for us and it really can turn our liver sluggish a lot of people have a sluggish liver and not necessarily because you know they're drinking alcohol all the time that's a misconception where yes alcohol definitely does it affect your liver but that's not the only thing so if we're not careful and we don't eat the foods and and do the daily activity that is going to support our liver detoxification we can get a sluggish liver when we have a sluggish liver and our bile flow is not working properly this is where high cholesterol happens so people think that high cholesterol comes from certain foods which if you're eating a fatty diet it's going to affect your bile flow it's going to affect your liver detox and then you're going to end up with high cholesterol but it also happens when you have a sluggish liver so when the food enters your your liver to go through the phase 1 phase 2 detox periods if it is a sluggish liver it's not processing those foods properly when it doesn't process the foods properly if it's still working on you know the alcohol that you drank last night and now you eat other food it's still processing this alcohol so it half processes the food that you ate but then it spits it back out into the bloodstream when that goes back out and I'm simplifying this process so please for anybody that's listening it's just an overview when it spits that food back out into the bloodstream that's where high cholesterol happens because it's half digested or half processed food that goes back into the bloodstream that your immune system is looking at like wait a minute what is this here now it's not supposed to be here so there's a whole there's a whole process to it but that's why it's so important so it's important to make sure that we eat the foods that are going to allow our liver to clean itself better so cruciferous vegetables beets are a great thing lemon water apple cider vinegar all of those things together are truly going to help regenerate your liver and help get that sluggishness out of it and help the bile to flow better too because the the bile can also become sludgy if we're not careful so you see how it's all connected right so yeah so all of those things the other thing that I love to tell my clients is that our organs hold on to emotions so if you're waking up between the hours of one and three and you know that you're a great eater you don't do any of the things that we said not to do before bed and everything but you're still waking during those hours you need to ask yourself what's going on with my emotions am I angry am I holding on to something am I frustrated with something because those emotions store themselves in the tissue of your liver so to truly again understand and listen to your body is a great way for you to get a great night's sleep yeah I love that the piece like you said about the emotions because I mean I've talked about it with other guests on the show but there's definitely a piece that I feel like plays plays a role in PCOS can play a role in in several other you know things when we're not releasing those emotions and not processing those emotions I think that's important to bring up yeah and who would think that who would think you know if you're if you're just a person going about your life doing whatever the right way and who would think for a minute oh I'm waking up between the hours of one and three because I am holding on to this anger yeah you wouldn't yeah right so knowledge is power yeah the other thing too I mean I I do believe there's a rise just I don't know if I really looked at the numbers but in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease of course time there is some resistance I feel like too you know so that's again where this this time can be so super important to help you and that's that is a hundred percent true and that can be related to cortisol right on cortisol levels and cortisol levels are we're stressed all the time and our you know we're constantly in fight-or-flight and when we're in fight-or-flight constantly our bodies do not have the time to regenerate back into that parasympathetic nervous system and it's just a constant cycle of being being on all the time when when we're when we are stressed and we're in the constantly in that fight-or-flight mode our body doesn't know the difference between whether we are running from a bear or if we're just upset because we had an argument with our spouse let's say your body is going to react that same way and and our stress is subjective right it's what I get stressed about maybe you wouldn't get stressed about so our body doesn't know that so it's going to react the same way which of course stress is a whole other pillar of health that you know you could take a whole hour more it's it all it's all hand it goes hand in hand it all just goes hand in hand and again understanding what it is that your body is going through is key yeah for sure
I can't thank Kate enough for this conversation I love how she explained the horrid body clock in a way that feels both empowering and practical not like another thing to obsess over but a way to listen to what your body might be asking for if you're listening and you're thinking okay this explains a lot here are a few simple takeaways to start with try a 9 p.m. wind down window dim lights reduce screens stop eating and help your nervous system shift keep your sleep environment cool and dark to support deeper rest if you wake up at the same time every night get curious what time is it and what might your body be processing then and most importantly treat sleep like a non-negotiable foundation not a reward you earn after you get everything else done if you want to connect with Kate you can find her at KCL wellness she's on Facebook and Instagram and you can also visit KCL wellness.com I'll link everything in the show notes so it's easy for you and as always if this episode helped you would you take 10 seconds to share it with a friend or leave a quick review it generally helps more women find the show especially women with PC less who are tired of feeling dismissed and are ready to heal from the inside out lastly how are your resolutions going if you're tired of setting New Year's resolutions that don't last if you've ever felt like you are the problem because motivation fades or life gets in the way no matter what time of year it is the anti-resolution revolution event is for you from January 26th through the 31st you'll receive free daily recordings from each of our amazing speakers delivered straight to your inbox so you can watch on your own schedule and the goal isn't to give you another plan to follow it's to help you finally understand why resolutions fail every year in a fun gamified way and what actually needs to change for sustainable progress to happen you can register for free I'll have everything waiting for you in the show notes all right I'm sending you so much love and I'll see you in the next episode of PCOS Unfiltered: Nourish, Heal, Thrive.