What has dieting really done to our bodies? And why do we keep turning to new diets when so many of us have spent years struggling with the same food rules? In Part 2 of my conversation on PCOS Unfiltered: Nourish, Heal, Thrive, I'm back with Paula D. Atkinson, a liberation psychotherapist, educator, and body acceptance advocate who has spent more than 15 years helping people navigate disordered eating, food obsession, exercise addiction, and body dissatisfaction. After exploring the history of diet culture in Part 1, we're taking the conversation even deeper into the diets, beliefs, and experiences that have shaped our relationships with food and our bodies. From SlimFast and the grapefruit diet to Atkins, keto, and today's carnivore diet, Paula walks us through decades of weight-loss trends and how familiar approaches continue to resurface under different names. But this conversation goes far beyond diet trends. We explore what can happen when restrictive eating becomes a way of life, how dieting can affect our relationship with hunger and fullness, and why constantly following outside rules may make it harder to recognize what our bodies actually need. Paula also shares her deeply personal experience growing up in a larger body, facing weight-related bullying, and developing severe restrictive eating behaviors that nearly cost her life. And I open up about some of my own experiences with body shaming, food restriction, and comments that stayed with me long after they were spoken. We also discuss weight-loss surgery, GLP-1 medications, the changing conversation around body positivity, and Paula's perspective on the medical and commercial pressures surrounding weight loss. Throughout our conversation, one question keeps coming back: What if we stopped focusing so much on how our bodies look and started paying more attention to how we actually feel living in them? Because learning to trust your body isn't about following another set of rules. Sometimes it begins with recognizing which rules no longer serve you.
Listening is a great place to start, but lasting change happens when you begin putting these ideas into practice.
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This week, I want you to identify ONE food rule you've been following that may no longer serve you.
Maybe it's:
❤️ Avoiding certain foods because a diet told you to
❤️ Ignoring your hunger to stick to a schedule
❤️ Feeling guilty when you eat something you enjoy
❤️ Believing you need to exercise to earn your food
Now ask yourself:
Is this rule actually helping me nourish my body, or is it keeping me disconnected from what my body needs?
Choose one small way to practice listening to your body instead of automatically following that rule.
Remember, your body deserves to be heard, not constantly controlled.
Paula D. Atkinson is a liberation psychotherapist, educator, and advocate for body acceptance who has spent more than 15 years working with individuals experiencing disordered eating, food obsession, exercise addiction, and body dissatisfaction.
As a former professor of Weight & Society at George Washington University, Paula developed and taught a course exploring the history of fatphobia and society's cultural preference for thinness.
Her work focuses on challenging harmful cultural beliefs about food, weight, and body image while helping individuals and organizations create more compassionate approaches to body acceptance.
Paula also trains healthcare professionals, clinics, and organizations on reducing weight stigma and harm in a weight-focused culture.
Her perspectives have been featured on NPR, numerous podcasts, and in national publications. She also appeared on Jubilee Media's Surrounded: 1 Health Expert vs. 20 Body Positivity Activists, participating in a conversation about body justice alongside Jillian Michaels.
Want to learn more about Paula and her work?
🌐 Website:
http://pauladatkinson.com/
🔗 Connect with Paula:
https://linktr.ee/pauladatkinson
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Your life isn't determined by your past, your diagnosis, or your circumstances. The stories you believe shape the choices you make—and every new choice is an opportunity to create a different future.
⚠️ Podcast Disclaimer
This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not intended as medical advice. Always consult with a qualified healthcare professional before making any changes to your health routine.
(0:00) I think people don't, you know, one of my main things I can't stress enough is that, (0:05) you know, dieting is trauma. Dieting is trauma to your body and to your brain (0:09) and it may seem innocent enough, and especially those of us who have, you know, (0:14) work with, I'm sure you do too, so many clients who like, oh my mom and I would (0:17) go on diets together, it was like this cute bonding thing, or my sister and I, (0:21) but it's trauma to your body and your brain. It's capital T trauma, you know, (0:25) because there's nothing, when you, when you consider it evolutionarily and (0:30) biologically, there's nothing your body wants to do less than starve.(0:35) Welcome back to PCOS Unfiltered, where we help you understand what your body (0:39) has been trying to tell you all along. I'm your host, Lindsay, nurse turned (0:44) health coach, two-time author, and your body wisdom guide. Today's conversation (0:49) is a little different from some of the conversations we've had here, and I (0:53) think it's going to make you look at dieting, weight, and maybe even some of (0:57) your own beliefs about your body in a completely different way.My guest is (1:01) Paula Atkinson, a psychotherapist who has spent more than 15 years working with (1:06) people struggling with disordered eating, food obsession, exercise addiction, and (1:11) body hatred. Paula has also taught university-level coursework, exploring (1:16) the history of fatphobia, diet culture, and society's relationship with body (1:21) size, and she trains professionals and organizations on creating more body (1:26) inclusive approaches to health and care. And today we're pulling back the curtain (1:31) on something many of us have probably never stopped to ask, where did all these (1:35) rules about our bodies actually come from? We go back through the history of (1:39) dieting, from some of the earliest diet trends to Weight Watchers, calorie (1:44) counting, low-fat diets, Atkins, keto, all the way to today's GLP-1 era.But (1:51) underneath all of that is a much bigger conversation about what happens when we (1:56) spend years believing that someone or something outside of us knows our bodies (2:01) better than we do. And I think that's where this conversation connects so (2:05) strongly with body wisdom. Because maybe instead of constantly asking, how do I (2:10) make my body look different? We can begin asking, how do I actually feel living in (2:16) this body? What does it need? And how can I support it instead of constantly (2:21) trying to control it? You may agree with some of what you hear today, you may (2:25) disagree with some of it, and some of Paula's perspectives challenge (2:28) conventional approaches to weight and health.I encourage you to listen with (2:32) curiosity, ask questions, and continue making your own informed decisions with (2:37) qualified healthcare professionals. And if these are the kinds of conversations (2:41) you've been craving, I'd love to have you inside my free Healthy Ever After (2:45) community, where we continue exploring nutrition, body wisdom, nervous system (2:49) support, and sustainable health without another list of impossible rules. You'll (2:54) find a link to join in the show notes.As always, this podcast is intended for (2:58) educational and informational purposes only, and shouldn't be considered medical (3:02) advice. Now go ahead, grab your favorite beverage, get comfortable, and let's dive (3:07) in. Here is my conversation with Paula Atkinson.(3:15) Let's talk about the food pyramid. (3:18) Okay, I don't know. This is something you may have to tell me more about.(3:21) Oh, I thought maybe you'd know about this one. (3:24) No. I mean, I know about the history of it, but I don't really know about what (3:27) everyone's doing.We don't even do that anymore, right? (3:30) No. It's my plate or whatever now. But that was something that we focused on for (3:34) so long, right? And it was like, this was the way.So maybe it wasn't really tied (3:39) to dieting necessarily, but it was like eating this way for better health, you (3:45) know. But of course, now I think they've debunked, like, all of it. (3:49) Well, it also comes back to, I mean, this is something my mom and I used to talk (3:54) about, because I grew up in a very diverse place.I'm from Northern (3:57) California. So I grew up, even though my town wasn't very diverse, like I grew up (4:01) near Oakland and near San Francisco. And my mom grew up, she was the only white (4:05) girl at her school.She grew up with all, like, Mexican, Latino people. And so we (4:10) would talk all the time about how dumb it is to assume that all the bodies should (4:16) eat the same thing. And, you know, something I talk about with my clients a (4:20) lot is, like, you are the descendants of the ancestors who didn't die.So (4:25) whatever they ate is probably what you should, you know, like, I have a dear (4:30) friend of mine whose father had a heart attack. And so he was like, I'm gonna be (4:34) vegan, right? He's Argentinian. He was, like, so miserable.I'm like, your (4:41) ancestors, your ancestors are not vegan. There's no one in your blood. You know, (4:48) and it's like, that's just so, I mean, that's my biggest problem with the Food (4:52) Pyramid is, like, how, what a ridiculous idea that all the bodies should eat the (4:56) same thing or the same amount of the same things when we're all from different (5:00) ancestry and different parts of the world.Right? Yeah, yeah, no, that's, (5:05) that's an awesome point as well. I touched on it just a very, very little bit in my (5:09) book as well. But yeah, like, we're, depending on our culture and our (5:13) ancestors, you know, yeah, we're, we are better served by certain foods versus, (5:21) you know, other cultures that may not be.Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.(5:25) Yeah. I mean, I'm, I am a vegetarian. I've been a vegetarian for 20 years, but it (5:30) seems to work well for me.But I have had friends who've tried and are like, just (5:35) ravenous by the second day, you know, so that's the other thing. I've also had a (5:39) client who tried, she wanted to be vegan so bad, but she was just, she couldn't, (5:44) like, couldn't get out of bed. She was like, I'm so weak, I can't.So it's again, (5:49) like, it seems like the answer is always to listen to your body. Your body (5:53) actually knows the answer to whether or not you, what you should be eating and (5:57) what you should be eating. Yeah, that's, that's very true.I've, I've done it (6:01) myself before. I was like vegetarian. I, then I started bringing back, um, chicken (6:08) and fish, didn't eat red meat for the longest time, but I also didn't feel like (6:13) I was craving it or I didn't feel like I needed it, you know? And then now (6:18) recently I, I have brought it back, but it's only like, if it sounds good to me, (6:24) you know, which can be sometimes during certain times of my cycle, right? (6:29) Exactly, of course, yes, yes, yes, yeah.I mean, I think that, again, like, I just, I just think you, you know, your body knows, you know, and I think I can go on and on and on about the externalization of health, that any, any source outside of your body knows better than your body is so ridiculous. (6:50) Just, no one knows more than you, you know, and, and I get that we are disconnected and like, again, I'm not, I'm not saying don't get your scans (6:58) or don't get your colon, like, go get your colonoscopy, right? Like, you don't know if you have a polyp in your colon, but like, you do know how certain foods make you feel, you do know, you know, like, I don't eat, I can't have chocolate past, past 12 noon because I'm so, um, sensitive to caffeine, right? So, but I, but I eat chocolate for breakfast, um, you know, and so it's not from a diet perspective, it's that, like, no, I have to eat my chocolate before 12 noon. (7:24) Yeah, yeah.Oh, my gosh. Um, so after Weight Watchers, I know what was like the next big? (7:33) There were so, yes. So Weight Watchers was kind of, she really was the top of the market for years.It was then that we got into, like, the 70s is like the Pritikin Institute and, um, which is like zero salt, zero flavor on anything. Um, you know, I'm, I remember some of these, the 80s, you know, this is when we got into Slim Fast, we could shake, breakfast, shake a lot. (8:00) Oh, my gosh, my mom did that.(8:01) Of course. (8:02) Some of my clients who, that was their lunch, which is horrifying, um, like in high school. Um, and then we get into, you know, the 80s is really like the grapefruit diet, which actually was something from like the 50s that like keeps coming up.(8:19) The cabbage, a lot of these like keep coming up. (8:20) The cabbage soup. (8:21) Cabbage soup, that's from the 60s.Yep, totally. Um, I mean, some of my favorites that are just ridiculous, there was the, um, what was it? The Sleeping Beauty Diet, which is basically just taking a bunch of Valium because if you're asleep, you don't eat. (8:37) Oh, my gosh.(8:38) I know, horrifying. (8:38) I don't know if I've heard that before. Maybe I've heard like some form, maybe not that term for it, but like, oh, my gosh.(8:45) I know, horrifying. There was also like in the late 70s, there was the, um, I mean, then you start to notice that the, the different organizations or the different corporations, um, are just so blatant about it. (9:00) There was a banana and milk diet where you're only, you know, it's like the milk corporation, the milk farmers and the banana farmers went together and they were like, this is the most amazing diet.(9:10) Um, that was like in the 70s and 80s. (9:14) I feel like in the 90s, they started to have to get a little bit more sneaky, you know, and so then like South Beach, um, Atkins, but Atkins is so interesting because there was like actually one of the first people to say to not eat any carbohydrates and just live off of meat was like Lord Byron. (9:33) And like the, again, like it all comes from like the ruling class and the aristocracy, like, like in the 1850s, he wrote this whole thing about like evil corpulence and you should only eat meat and all this stuff.(9:46) So again, these things come up all the time. (9:47) Like, I love it when the kids talk about like keto and I'm like, girl, that's Atkins. (9:52) And then also, you know, to put your body into ketoacidosis, I feel like happened in a new way.(9:59) Every 20 years we call it something else. (10:01) Um, and then it's just starvation. (10:03) Yeah.(10:04) And then probably, well, probably one of the recent ones is the carnivore diet, like which might be some type of form of Atkins of keto. (10:11) Yeah, yeah, these are all, these are all the same thing, but again, like it's interesting and I think it's interesting and I think it's, it adds a new level of like awareness when you just recognize that it's just repackaged every 20 to 30 years in a new package. (10:29) And keto is, is, or Atkins is so, uh, particularly sneaky because you do lose a lot of weight really fast because your body is in ketosis, your body is eating your own muscle to survive.(10:43) So yes, it does work, quote unquote, you get super dehydrated and your body eats itself to survive. (10:49) And then always, always, always you gain the weight back because your body is recovering from that horrible thing we just lived through. (10:57) Yeah, yeah.(10:57) It's not realistic to maintain. (10:59) I mean, and that's, yeah, that's, that's great that you bring that up too, because that's the thing with all of these, right? (11:06) It's just, it's not, it's not realistic. (11:08) It's not sustainable.(11:10) Right, right. (11:11) Long term. (11:11) And we stress our bodies out and our minds out probably so much in the meantime trying to do it because, you know, while you're restricting and no carbs and no sugar and everything else that you've been used to, your mind's like, wait a minute, how long are we going to do this for? (11:26) Yes.(11:27) Well, and I think people don't, you know, one of my main things I, I can't stress enough is that, you know, dieting is trauma, dieting is trauma to your body and to your brain. (11:37) And it may seem innocent enough. (11:39) And especially those of us who have, you know, work with, I'm sure you do too.(11:42) So many clients who like, oh, my mom and I would go on diets together. (11:45) It was like this cute bonding thing or my sister and I, but it's trauma to your body and your brain. (11:50) It's capital T trauma, you know, because there's nothing, when you, when you consider it evolutionarily and biologically, there's nothing your body wants to do less than starve.(12:01) And your body doesn't know that you are, you are eating so little that it has to eat itself to survive because you want to look cute in a bikini. (12:10) Your body's just like, there's a famine, terrible things are happening. (12:14) Especially when there's a famine and people are like exercising a lot.(12:18) I'm like, your body is so unhappy. (12:22) All of your ancestors worked really hard for you to never have to do this. (12:26) Right.(12:27) And it is trauma. (12:28) And it is. (12:29) And we know that we know that from the Minnesota starvation project, which I don't know if you've ever researched or talked about.(12:35) It's so genius. (12:37) Um, I'll go back to it in a second, but also we know that from the epigenetics of, you know, that we see that any descendants of people who lived through like the Holocaust or there was a famine in Holland. (12:50) That the descendants of those people have more likelihood that they will have eating disorders, more likelihood that they will have diabetes.(12:58) Like it, it changes your DNA to starve, changes your DNA. (13:03) It changes your offsprings, your, your future, the future generations. (13:09) Um, it changes their relationship with food and their body forever.(13:13) So that's, you know, that's capital T trauma. (13:15) Yeah. (13:16) Yeah.(13:16) I mean, I think the underlying thing with a lot of these diets, like you said, even the ones that have been like repurposed and renamed, you know, is that it, it teaches you, even if it is for a short time, but how to just kind of eat more whole foods is what it comes down to. (13:31) I know at like one point had their little, they end up with like packaged items, right. (13:37) You know, some of that stuff then kind of became a thing.(13:39) Yeah. (13:40) But I think that kind of seems to be the underlying thing is, is you do end up eating more whole foods with a different title, but it's the restriction piece that comes along with all of these things. (13:53) You know, when you're, when you just immediately start, okay, you can't have A, B, C, D, you know, like whatever it is.(14:01) Totally. (14:02) And that's where, that's where I think it really, really gets you. (14:06) Yeah.(14:06) Well, and yeah, like you just claimed, you just said it, right. (14:09) That a lot of these diet, again, they do not care about your health. (14:12) So they will sell you, you know, these weird protein bars and all of this stuff, which is not, that's not food.(14:18) Your body doesn't want to eat that. (14:20) You know, I love, I mean, some, some protein bars are delicious, but like, but most of them are full of all sorts of weird stuff that your body doesn't even recognize. (14:28) Exactly.(14:29) Yeah. (14:29) Yeah. (14:30) And for some people, you know, like we talked about the cultures and stuff too, but we have sensitivities now to things that we didn't realize years and years ago, you know, that that developed from our ancestors and ties in the gut microbiome.(14:44) You know, of course we could go down that rabbit hole, I'm sure too, you know, but, but yeah. (14:50) And so like, we think we're eating healthy. (14:52) That was me for the longest time.(14:53) I thought I was eating healthy, but I didn't realize the things that I was eating just were not, you know, were not serving me. (15:02) Absolutely. (15:03) Right.(15:03) And again, that, that a, a food by itself might be quote unquote healthy or unhealthy, whatever any of that actually means. (15:11) But like, does your body want it? (15:13) You know, does your body actually want to be eating? (15:15) You know, my, my, I have a dear friend of mine who has, you know, gastroparesis, not really bad, but a little bit. (15:25) So for him to eat a lot, you know, to eat a lot of fiber, which is what we're all supposed to be eating now in our fifties, right.(15:32) And, and in 2026, but he can't do that. (15:35) He's got, you know, he has to eat more packaged food. (15:39) He has to eat more pre-processed food.(15:42) So like, it doesn't apply to him, you know? (15:45) Yeah. (15:45) Yeah. (15:46) Yeah.(15:47) What about gastric bypass? (15:49) A, I struggle with this again. (15:52) I, I'm a body liberation activist. (15:54) So in my heart of hearts, I believe everybody is allowed to do with their body, whatever, whatever they want, period.(16:01) And when you amputate a perfectly well run person, useful organ, it is not healthy. (16:13) Your body doesn't want to do that. (16:16) When you reroute your intestines, which is what, you know, the Roux-en-Y, that's what it means.(16:21) Like you are rerouting your intestines. (16:24) You are amputating your stomach and rerouting your intestines. (16:28) It's, you know, now we're seeing more and more.(16:31) They, I don't think it's hard to find, but you know, I, I have someone in my life who died of starvation after a gastric bypass, right? (16:41) Like his body never recovered. (16:42) His body never could digest ever again. (16:45) He died of starvation.(16:46) And absorbed the nutrients, right? (16:48) Like properly that a person needs. (16:50) Yeah, exactly. (16:51) So it was like 20 years later, but like he deteriorated over 20 years.(16:58) You know, I just, I, I have a feel, again, everybody's allowed to do with their body, whatever they want. (17:03) But to me, it definitely feels like in a hundred years, we're going to look back and, and kind of like you and I look at, you know, leeches. (17:10) Like, I can't believe they put leeches on their body.(17:12) That's insane. (17:14) Oh my gosh. (17:15) Yeah.(17:15) Right. (17:16) I think it's going to be the same thing that we're going to be like, you know, we used to amputate perfectly well using, you know, useful organs. (17:26) Yeah.(17:27) In, in, in for why, you know, because we, you know, the, the, um, activist, uh, Reagan Chastain, who I love so much, she is a public health, um, person. (17:40) And she's, uh, like a fat liberation activist. (17:44) She's incredible.(17:44) But she said years ago, and I think about it all the time. (17:47) She said, you know, the medical establishment wants fat people to be dead or skinny. (17:52) They don't care which, which is, you know, a big statement, but I, I don't think she's wrong.(17:58) Yeah. (17:59) Yeah. (17:59) That's crazy.(18:00) I mean, and I, like, I remember my nursing days, um, where it was like, I don't know. (18:07) I mean, probably nineties was gastric bypass, maybe like nineties, probably when it kind of started. (18:12) I mean, then I do remember, cause I feel like they were just doing it for anybody and everybody.(18:16) And then it started where you needed like, you know, mental health counseling beforehand, you needed to actually lose some weight before you got it done. (18:26) Right. (18:26) You know? (18:27) Yeah.(18:27) Like to actually show that you're committed and everything, but I don't know today kind of what the, what the standard is around that. (18:35) It's actually, there's, there's not as many of them as there that now, if you're going to get one of them, it's usually the sleeve where they don't read out your intestines. (18:44) They just, you know, cut off two thirds of your stomach, which I think is also horrifying.(18:49) Um, but yeah, they do, they do the, the gastric bypass less and less these days. (18:54) I think there was too many complications. (18:57) Complications for sure.(18:59) Of course. (18:59) I mean, when you think about it, that's insane. (19:01) I would, the last day of my class, I would show people, it was a cartoon.(19:06) It wasn't an actual body, but I would show people the cartoon version of like what it actually entailed. (19:11) And a lot of, you know, people would say, oh, my aunt had gastric bypass. (19:14) These person I got, like, they don't really understand it.(19:16) But when I would show the video of like, they cut out your stomach and then they take your intestine and they reattach it up here, you know, people are like, oh my God, that's barbaric. (19:27) And it is. (19:28) Yeah.(19:28) Yeah. (19:29) Yeah. (19:29) But I know, I feel like people weren't asking the right questions.(19:32) They were just like, oh, this is the fix. (19:35) So yeah, then this is, you know, yeah. (19:38) Um, what diet did you, have you tried? (19:45) I mean, my own story is that like, I was born, I was born a fat kid.(19:49) I, you know, I was almost 11 pounds, um, when I was born and then I was, I was just a big kid. (19:55) And then, you know, I kind of got bullied into overeating is the way I say it. (19:59) Like I didn't, I wasn't overeating.(20:02) I wasn't doing anything. (20:03) I was just fat. (20:04) Cause some bodies are just fat.(20:06) And, uh, because it was the eighties, I just got so bullied and, you know, we can go into it, but like the amount of, of violations that I experienced from well-meaning adults, you know, just, it piled up. (20:21) And so then I did start quote unquote overeating. (20:24) I did start using food as a way to calm myself as a way to take care of myself.(20:31) Um, and then I started starving myself in, uh, at age 16 and it wasn't really an, an official diet. (20:39) It was just like, I made it up. (20:42) It was just like, I'm going to eat nothing but fruit or whatever.(20:45) Um, right. (20:46) Cause it was the eighties or the early nineties or whatever. (20:49) Uh, and then it just snowballed immediately into a full blown starvation.(20:54) Um, and then I almost died of starvation at age 21. (20:58) Um, so I was like diagnosed obese quote unquote at age 16. (21:03) And then five years later I was, uh, you know, I almost died.(21:08) My body couldn't, I couldn't digest solid foods anymore. (21:11) Um, my body had eaten all of my muscle. (21:14) Um, and then, yeah.(21:16) And then I was trying to be healthy, whatever the hell that meant, you know, in the like (21:22) late nineties, early two thousands, when, you know, the world was screeching about the (21:26) obesity epidemic and, you know, all of the people on television were so thin. (21:33) Um, and it was weird, you know, it was a really rough time to try to be a sane person (21:40) around food, try to be a young woman with a, you know, a healthy relationship with my (21:44) body. (21:45) So that was, those experiences sort of shaped me and my passion for this.(21:52) Um, and then it was 2012 that I got my class at GW and then I created this sort of (21:58) social justice history of fat phobia class. (22:01) And then I just, now I just won't shut up about it. (22:04) Um, so, and then I have, I work with so many clients who, you know, like we talked (22:10) about that just struggle so much and have, have lived their life hating their body, (22:14) which I just find absolutely heartbreaking.(22:18) Yeah. (22:19) I mean, and the trauma around that, like, you know, your personal experience, I, mine (22:24) was my ex-husband and I was, I was like 125 pounds maybe, and I was still overweight to (22:31) him. (22:32) I didn't have this like ideal shape.(22:34) And so of course, you know, I had to like hide when I was eating and I went into that, (22:39) like you, you kind of said, I giggled because it was like not a diet, but I remember I (22:46) would eat like a blueberry muffin a day and that was what I thought was like sustaining (22:52) me, but, and I was able to like either maintain or lose weight and I was always (22:56) super active. (22:57) That was never an issue, you know, but it's amazing the traumas that come from all of (23:02) that. (23:02) And I mean, I even remember like, you know, my mom making a comment as I was, cause I (23:07) used to do gymnastics and then I'd gotten out of gymnastics.(23:10) And of course, you know, it, I never necessarily had like a weight issue looking back. (23:16) I was like puffy, but now knowing I had a gluten allergy and all that stuff, like that (23:20) makes sense. (23:20) You know, but I just remember comments like from my mom when I would eat cereal and it (23:24) was like, well, you know, you can't eat too much of that or you're going to be fat, you (23:27) know, that type of thing.(23:28) And it was like, that lives with you. (23:30) That stays with you. (23:32) Of course.(23:32) You know, for so long. (23:35) Yeah. (23:35) Yeah.(23:36) I mean the, the, the, you know, I was just saying this to a friend of mine who has, who (23:41) has a daughter, you know, if, if I hear an adult make a comment about a young person's (23:48) body, I feel homicidal. (23:52) I'm like, do not talk about children's bodies. (23:55) Right.(23:56) And what you lived through, what, what all of mostly, mostly women, but not all women, (24:01) like my partner, you know, grew up in a fat phobic home and he's a fat guy and he had to (24:06) live through that. (24:06) So it's not just all women, but you know, it's just a, it's a violation. (24:10) Every single time anybody talks about your body without your consent, it's a violation.(24:16) Yeah. (24:17) Yeah. (24:17) Wow.(24:19) Um, well, oh my gosh, we're like, I feel like we could just go on, but as we start (24:26) wrapping up, um, one kind of question that came to mind is now, you know, we're seeing (24:32) so many on the spectrum of being too thin, of course, right now. (24:38) So kind of, what are your, yeah. (24:39) What are your thoughts around that? (24:41) Where do you, is it the GLP ones? (24:43) Is it, you know, there was so much about the body positivity movement for the longest (24:47) time.(24:47) Right. (24:48) And now we're seeing where like these celebrities are so thin and that's what (24:52) they're showing to our, you know, to our children. (24:55) Youth.(24:55) Right. (24:55) Yeah. (24:56) Like, what are your thoughts around all of that? (24:59) I mean, it's, uh, it's both heartbreaking and scary.(25:04) And also I'm not at all, I think people are shocked that I'm not at all shocked. (25:09) Like nobody, two things, the body positivity movement. (25:13) Great.(25:14) Sure. (25:15) Fine. (25:16) But like, if, if it's marketable, it's not a revolution is what I like to say.(25:20) Right. (25:20) And the fact that it immediately became marketable, like that there were like (25:24) old Navy ads with like, you know, size 12 people in them, you know, that's how I (25:30) knew we were, we were going down the wrong route because, because what I want is (25:38) infinitely unmarketable, which is that all the bodies that exist get to exist as they (25:43) are in this moment. (25:44) Right.(25:44) And nobody makes money off of that. (25:46) So I, I, so it's, it's, it's about like for me, what I say to my clients, what I'd (25:52) say on my Instagram reels and stuff is like, we just have to claim it. (25:57) They're never going to give it to us.(25:59) They can't give it to us. (26:01) They can't let us live that, that nobody makes money. (26:04) If we just like eat the food from our garden and, you know, go to the farmer's (26:10) market and like the corporations don't make any money.(26:13) So we can't wait for them to give us permission to just exist. (26:17) We just, we just have to exist. (26:19) Yeah.(26:20) And except for them, GLP ones, you know, again, I'm not against GLP ones. (26:24) Again, I do feel like it's just like the natural progression. (26:28) You know, when I think about them by them, I mean, corporations like (26:32) selling us diets for a hundred years, which has made all of us incapable of (26:41) regulating our own food because, because starvation causes the inability to know (26:47) when we're hungry or not hungry.(26:48) Right. (26:48) Like they, it, it causes the abandonment of our bodies and then they sell us (26:55) something that gets us to, to not over, I mean, it's, it just feels very absurd, (27:00) but also like, if I was a science fiction writer, I probably could have predicted (27:04) this, that this would be the next phase of, of what was going to happen. (27:09) Um, and then I know that, you know, as soon as GLP ones become, uh, accessible (27:17) to everyone, then the pendulum will swing.(27:21) Cause they have to keep making it something that not poor people can have (27:25) because fat phobia is classism, right? (27:28) It is about being the elite. (27:30) It always has been. (27:31) That's what it's always been about is being a member of the elite.(27:35) So as soon as like poor people can take GLP ones, then they'll, you (27:40) know, we'll have to be something else. (27:42) I don't know what the, I don't know what the next thing will be, but it won't last, (27:46) you know, and because I've worked with so many people who have starved (27:49) themselves for my whole life. (27:52) Um, I know that like everybody's bodies will get big again.(27:57) Cause that's the nature of starvation is that you, your body eventually (28:02) gets to be a size it wants to be. (28:04) Um, and that there's going to be a lot of people who are suffering. (28:09) I don't, I, you know, we don't really know what these GLP ones do to people.(28:14) Long-term people who don't have diabetes. (28:16) Right. (28:17) Yeah.(28:17) Um, we don't know what the long-term effects are and I think, I think it's going to be bad. (28:23) Yeah. (28:23) Yeah.(28:24) I agree. (28:24) Yeah, I agree. (28:26) Um, I mean, and that's again, as we wrap up, I think it's, it's just important to, (28:32) you know, hopefully with this conversation and, you know, any of the (28:36) listeners feel just more empowered to go learn more about some of this stuff (28:40) and just take the control back.(28:42) Right. (28:43) Like it's not about looking a certain way, being a certain weight, being (28:47) happy and healthy, I think is what I'm trying to say. (28:50) Yeah.(28:50) My, my little trademark saying that you, I, everybody go say it, that my lived (28:57) experience of living in this body is more important to me than anybody's (29:01) experience of looking at my body. (29:03) And that is so revolutionary. (29:05) And then it's revolutionary that it's revolutionary.(29:08) Like, why is that so wild to say, you know, but because, you know, the (29:11) entire, all of these industries exist because we were convinced to abandon our (29:18) bodies, right. (29:20) And to, to let other people's opinion about our bodies be what we prioritize. (29:24) And so you don't have to do that anymore.(29:27) You can just choose not to do that. (29:29) Yeah. (29:30) Oh, well, that's a good way to end it.(29:32) I love that. (29:34) So last question is, I will put everything in the show notes as well, but how can (29:37) people find you and connect with you? (29:39) I would love to hear from anybody, any listeners, if you have any questions or (29:43) if you, you know, want, I have so many articles and so many things, I have a (29:47) wealth of knowledge and wealth of resources for you. (29:50) You can find me at Paula D as in David Atkinson and that on Instagram.(29:55) That's also my website. (29:57) That's also my, my Paula D Atkinson at Gmails, my email. (30:00) So any, anybody who wants to reach out to me, please do.(30:04) Awesome. (30:04) Love it. (30:05) Oh, this was a good conversation.(30:07) Like I said, I feel like we could have just kept going. (30:10) It might be a, yeah, maybe another episode. (30:13) Well, we can, we can dive in some more to something else.(30:15) And yeah, but thank you. (30:18) Thank you again so much for being here and for this conversation. (30:21) I loved it.(30:22) Thank you. (30:23) Thanks Lindsay. (30:25) What a conversation.(30:27) And I think if there's one thing I want you to take away from this (30:30) conversation with Paula today, it's this. (30:32) Get curious about where your beliefs about your body came from. (30:36) Who taught you what your body was supposed to look like? (30:39) Who taught you what you were allowed to eat? (30:43) Where did you learn that a number on a scale determined whether you were (30:46) healthy or successful or worthy? (30:48) And maybe most importantly, are those beliefs actually serving you anymore? (30:53) You don't have to leave this episode agreeing with everything Paula or I said.(30:57) That's never what this podcast is about, but I hope you leave asking questions (31:02) because the more we understand where some of these messages came from, the (31:06) easier it can become to separate what we've been told our bodies need from what (31:10) our bodies may actually be asking for. (31:12) And that is such a big part of body wisdom. (31:15) If you want a place to continue exploring conversations like this, come (31:19) join us inside my free healthy ever after community, it's a space where (31:23) we can talk about nutrition, our relationship with food, nervous system (31:26) support, hormones, and what sustainable health can actually look like in real life.(31:31) You'll find the link to join in the show notes, and I'll also link Paula's (31:35) information there if you'd like to learn more about her work and resources. (31:39) And I'd love to hear what this episode brought up for you. (31:42) What belief about food, weight, or your body are you starting to question? (31:46) If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you're subscribed, leave a (31:49) review and share it with someone who might appreciate this conversation.(31:53) Because healing doesn't come from doing more. (31:55) It comes from understanding better. (31:57) I'm sending you so much love and I'll see you on the next episode (32:00) of PCOS unfiltered, nourish, heal, thrive.